for that we turn to our producer. >> got a tweet and says contractors during way too early, august 7th, your youngest fan has not miss add show in months. >> i saw this tweet. just prop up your children shoe have new children in front of "way too early." "morning joe" starts right now. >> this is about american jobs and the american economy, and if we don't do something serious about controlling our debt, it's hanging over our entire economy like a wet blanket. that's why i believe taking

serious steps towards solving problems will help create jobs here. i would prefer to have a bipartisan approach to solve this problem and if is that not possible, i and my republican colleagues are ready to move on our own. >> today? >> today. >> good morning. monday, july 25th, a live look at times square. welcome to "morning joe." we have john heilman. and savannah guthrie. >> what we just saw, not surprising. >> what are you doing? >> it's been a while and i have not seen you guys in a while. >> it is. you guys have -- >> did you know at one point it was 187 in midtown new york,

willie. >> i go away a week ago, and i think the whole deal will be done in ten days, and everything solved, and nothing -- >> exactly. >> think about how we feel. >> what is going on? >> what is wrong? >> remember what i said! >> can't you get anything done? >> it's fine. >> hi, willie. >> savannah plays guitar. >> i heard that. >> where did you sing that it was recorded? >> nowhere. >> i am here to talk about the debt ceiling. >> exactly. >> what did she sing? >> "stairway to heaven." >> how long you have been playing guitar? >> i started in my 20s. i taught myself and am not very good at all and i do know how to play a little bit. >> i said after hearing this

clip, she sounds like an angel, and an angel that has smoked too many cigarettes. >> no. >> and google savannah guthrie, rock star, and you will get that. sounds good. >> i find savannah more interesting than what transpired over the weekend. you saw "book of mormon," how was it? was that not great? >> i brought my children. they were the only children in the room. >> there's a reason for that. >> there were a lot of people there, and there were my little children, my sweet adorable girls. >> how shocked were your girls? >> they were shocked. >> what did you think? >> i loved it. i just don't think anybody in the room who was a parent liked me that day. >> your kids like you, and that's all that matters. >> yeah. >> you don't let them have coke

kau cola, but you will warp their mind -- that was a great american values show. >> don't drink that slurpee -- >> the frog. the frog -- >> >> yeah, it was awful. so anyway, asian markets, shaky right now but we're getting down to the home stretch, and some very bad things, people in the market, in the know, say very bad things can go down in the market. >> that's not a surprise. we knew if we got this close things would get bad for months, and now we're this close and things are getting edgy. >> why can these people not do a deal and bring it in for landing? >> i am virtually certain i

cannot answer the question within the parameters set before me. >> i was just kidding. >> the ideology convictions on the two sides, which has proven to be unshakeable, have proven to be unshakeable. and they are looking at each other and saying this is what it's about and we're not ready to yield. and people cannot put the votes together. and we are where we are. >> what happened on friday night? savannah, we had the white house coming out and saying john boehner would not return my call, and john boehner did the whole bait and switch, and he said 400 billion in rev news,--

>> i don't know whose fault it is, and boehner saying we need $400,000 more, and then the white house saying, no, we were just enquiring, do you think you could push your guys and let us know and call us back if you can do it or not do it, and the takeaway, it's come on people, get it together. it feels like "romper room" for adults. doesn't make any sense why these two can't come together. >> they get hungry -- angry on friday night, and then saturday they are back together. >> what smart economists will tell you, we probably won't default right away and there would have to be dramatic cuts, and economists would say it would have the affect of a

default, and the credit markets will start wondering how long will they be able to meet the obligations. the economic damage that is already happening is going to get worse. i don't understand the politics of it. i don't understand who thinks this is beneficial to them. i don't understand why the republicans want to hold another vote before the 2012 elections as if that would be to their benefit, and it wouldn't be to anybody's benefit and it would harm the economy. >> it certainly would not harm the economy. the indecision is killing the united states as far as its representation across the globe. willie, we talked about -- i suspect we're doing more damage to the u.s. dollar and the u.s. economy than what china could do to us over 50 years. we're handing them an

extraordinary advantage worldwide. >> yeah, and there was a point yesterday on "meet the press," we won't default hopefully, and we will get something done, but the affect is it shows that the united states system is not set up to do big things. when a crisis like this comes up they cannot do a deal that would show stability to the world. >> ronald reagan and tip o'neal made big deals. in the 1990s, bill clinton and the republican congress made big deals. and mika, it's not over yet, but it has gotten to the point already that this is damaging the reputation of the united states the longer it goes, and i think we're talking about it damaging our reputation more every day that the crisis goes on. >> i think both sides would agree with that.

after a weekend of meetings resulting in yet another impasse, president obama is canceling two fundraisers today to continue negotiations. senate majority leader harry reid said the talks broke down last night because of the republicans insistence on a short-term deal, and their plan would cut $2.7 trillion over the next ten years. officials say it raises the debt ceiling but no tax increases. and he salaid out his latest solution. >> there will be a two-stage possible. it's not physically possible to do this in one step. i know the president is worried about his next election, but shouldn't we be worried about the country. we are borrowing 42 cents on

every dollar we spend, and a $14 trillion national debt, and it's time to get serious about stopping the spending in washington, d.c. >> i don't think that's helping anything. don't say that the president's concerned -- we were talking about this last week about harry reid saying snippy things about republicans. john boehner does not need to go on television at this time of crisis and take cheap shots at the president like that. for republicans at home watching, we said the same thing about harry reid two weeks ago. maybe they just -- maybe they just don't understand on capitol hill. maybe they don't understand how much this is shaking the world's confidence in the united states of america, in the dollar, in

our political system? maybe in washington, d.c. they don't understand that we are literally in an economic fight for supremacy over the next century with china. maybe they don't understand the more this goes on the more we strengthen china's standing in the globe and the more we strengthen the right, and maybe they just don't get it? >> i wonder if they recognize the place, for speaker boehner to say the president is worried about politics, may may or may not be the case, but nobody is suggesting the republicans are not that worried about their politics, too. everybody here is playing politics. >> and it's on the substance of what boehner said. it's ridiculous. just on this one point which is that the president -- the one thing that is absolutely from an objective standpoint true, that having this debate again in january or february of 2012 is

almost the only thing that is imaginable that is worst than what we are going through right now, because anybody that thinks that that will be a prettier or more productive process in the middle of a presidential election -- >> it would be a nightmare. >> with the iowa caucuses looming and election 11 months away is out of their minds. >> to say nothing of the real economic consequences these debates are having on our financial system. >> and willie, this is a political nightmare for the president. the president understands if he gets a deal done, like he got a deal done after the last election, well that is going to help him with independents. if he doesn't get a deal done, the white house understands -- does the president worried about this? yes, the president worries about that. but i think the president is more worried about an economic meltdown, a economic armageddon, if we don't take care of this. >> absolutely true.

and there's a reason the white house won't do a short term deal. they don't want it coming up in the presidential election. about the i think people watching this see that idea as another piecemeal short term, we can't solve the bigger problem. >> bill daily was on "meet the press" yesterday, and he is still blaming boehner for the impasse. he says the debt negotiations has caused enormous damage to the united states. >> if you look at the rating agencies what they have said, what they have said is the reason they question our economy right now and the reason we may get downgraded is because they don't have faith this political system of ours can deal in a serious way with the deficit. so the president is intent on making sure and all of the congressional leaders, senator

mcconnell and speaker boehner, and nancy pelosi, they all said the debt ceiling will be exte extend extended, and it must be in extended and not just some fix for six or eight months. >> what is troubling to me is the white house obviously, he's right, and this is all happening behind closed doors. i have no idea what really happened on friday night, and neither does america. was it john boehner's fault? was it the president's fault? did he do a bait and switch. does the president have a serious plan to curb the rate of growth for social security and medicaid? we don't know. it's all happening behind closed doors. while america's economy teeters on the brink, we don't actually know what three or four or five

men are doing behind closed doors in washington. think about that. it's insane. >> and because of that, if we do see the economic calamity that people are predicting, i don't know if people have a good sense of whose fault it was -- >> i don't think they care. you think of it like a parent, go to your room and get out. >> and in the next elections, everybody gets thrown out. i don't think either side feels this debate is in there political advantage. >> savannah, you said it twice, and i think it's a natural question, but every time we say why do republicans think this could be their advantage, republicans is the wrong -- it's too -- it's not the right phrase, because the republicans are really much more divided right now than the democrats are. >> the republicans are horrified

by what is going on. >> they have different views about the politics and the economics of this. that's at the core of the problem. not to cast blame, but the split republican caucus in the house is where everything is hung up on now, and boehner would deal a de deals where we would cut easily, but there is a divide. >> just to let you know how split the republican party is, willie while you were doing your orphans project in monte carlo last week, grover did the first part of the week with talk shows, but the second part of

the week he was actually saying a default would be a disaster. he set up the warning flags by the end of the week, because he understands how dangerous this is. john boehner, mitch mcconnell, lamar alexander, and most chair and chair women understand that this is an economic calamity. but there are some people in the caucus that say damn the tornadoes, full speed ahead. >> you think many of the people who signed his pledge and followed his every word would go along with it. we have not mentioned some of the details of the proposals. if you have $2.5 trillion in savings, a trillion of that assumes both the ends of the wars in afghanistan and pakistan. >> still not getting serious.

>> i went away from fuzzy. >> is that like jerry at trick math? >> yes. >> are you surprised they don't have a deal today? i actually really -- i mean, i really thought -- >> i would be shocked if they don't have a deal in the next two or three days. again, republican freshmen may have a big ideology difference with barack obama and his world view, and the divide is no greater than ronald reagan's was with tip o'neal in 1983 when they sat down, and they did a kneel. yes, you differ with barack obama and the democrats, but --

>> usually you are good at seeing somebody's angle. like you know what their angle was. what is the angle here? i don't get it. >> these republicans believe this is their only opportunity -- >> are they so stuck to the contract with the tea party they cannot think outside the box for the good of the country? seriously? >> can i finish? you asked a question and i need to finish. they understand one thing. >> what do they understand? >> they are dead right about this. this is their best chance, for quite sometime, to actually get real debt savings. i think they are concerned, like i would be very concerned right now, that there will be fuzzy math in these deals, and obama will not be serious about entitlement reform. but you have to take those concerns and take the leverage you have and translate it into a deal. if tom coburn says we can get a

$4 trillion deal, follow tom coburn -- i would not say that about any other politician in washington, but these republicans are safe following his advice. >> can you imagine house democrats in the '80s hearing something about what is going to happen, and they could say we think they are lying to us, or house republicans in 1995 from ruben and saying ruben has no credibility and he is lying. and the house republicans are saying boehner is make up the deadline. >> there are a lot of republicans that won in swing districts that will be beat at the polls next week if we see something like the t.a.r.p. the t.a.r.p. crisis, and that's going to look like summertime in

the south of france, mika. you know how beautiful it is there this time of year. >> i don't, actually. i had a horrible time when i went there once. >> yeah, we heard. many times. >> no ice cubes in the drinks. >> chuck schumer is coming up. we will be talking to chuck schumer. also, we will bring in congressman jim clyburn. >> and we will be talking about the norway tragedy. first, here is bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning, everybody. for the first time in a while it will feel like you are not walking on the sun. a little break in the atlantic from the heat today, but it will return by the end of the week. the heat wave has shrunk and returned to the middle of the country. the temperatures are warm at all locations. and then today we're going up to

105 in dallas. and 103 in oklahoma city. and d.c. at 92. bring the umbrella if you are on the east coast because showers and thunderstorms are a possibility late today. you are watching "morning joe" sunshine, brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] get ready for the left lane. the volkswagen autobahn for all event is back. right now, get a great deal on new volkswagen models, including the cc. and every volkswagen includes scheduled carefree maintenance. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease the volkswagen cc sport for just $289 a month.

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♪ 25 past the hour. time to take a look at the morning papers. in the new york times, the popular blogger is going to investigate the relationship between fox news president and chris kristi.

>> i don't know what that means? >> does that mean just give advice? >> i don't know. i don't know the answer. >> is that illegal to give advice? if so there are a lot of common taters that have talked to democratic candidates through the years that better duck. i am sure they will go through all the democrats in the media who have chummed around with democratic politicians and given political advice. >> let's see what the story is before we comment on it. how about that? >> that's a great idea. look at daddy -- >> playing the role of mika. >> yeah, i know. >> a military year-long investigation concluded u.s. taxpayer money has been funneled

to the taliban. the unreleased investigation provides seemingly definitive evidence that corruption has put u.s. money into enemy hands. >> and the sixth and largest state, new york, recognizes same-sex marriage. that's a look at the news. time for politico with willie. >> we turn to the chief white house correspondent, mr. mike allen. >> welcome back, willie. >> thank you, and good to see you. let's talk about the rivalry between tim pawlenty and michele bachmann, and at first they said they did not want to go negative, but things have changed, haven't they? >> the minnesota twins are going after each other. it started with pawlenty's

campaign, who's up against bachmann in iowa. she's the favorite. he has to do well there and he isolated her as his number one threat. his campaign put out material talking about how she has little record and saying she will fade, that she doesn't have a future. and then everything interesting happened, and until now congresswoman bachmann has shrugged off attacks from pawlenty, and this time she engages with him, and it suggests he is looking stronger and she now sees him as a threat. she put out a statement comparing him to barack obama saying there's little daylight between his record for her as governor, and -- >> she did not right. >> oh, come on. she did not. >> what? >> tim pawlenty as barack obama? >> she points to his record on climate changes, and his record on health care, and his fiscal

record. >> that's playing dirty. >> it's a tough statement here. she says governor pawlenty cannot run as his big governor, and it goes on and on to compare him to president obama. >> sounds like the straw poll is close at hand. >> yes. >> before we go, where is the pawlenty campaign now? they could not punch up in the polls and sitting around 9% or something like that. how are they doing? >> much better this weekend. we hear pawlenty is being looser on the campaign trail and the reports from iowa is they are getting stronger. you cannot talk about pa mentam, and they did pizza with pawle y pawlenty. >> looser on the campaign trail. they said that about you and i in 2008. that's great.

>> thank you so much. up next, we will bring in richard hoff. >> also, joe, you will love this. a pastor steals the show before nascar's race, with a prayer that would have made ricky bobby proud. >> lord, i want to thank you for my smokin' hot wife tonight, lisa, and in jesus name --

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♪ >> welcome back. 34 past. joining us, rechard haas. the suspect in the deadly attacks in norway set to be arraigned today. anders behring breivik, set to be in court this morning. he requested an open hearing to explain the massacre to the public, but nbc now confirms the

hearings will be closed. the 32-year-old left a scathing 1500 page-manifesto online, and he paints himself eager for a revolution. he denies any criminal guilt and calls his actions atrocious but necessary. the investigation into the tragedy expanded throughout europe as french authorities raided the father's home of the suspect, and under norway law breivik could get a maximum sentence of 21 years, and if the court deems he is a future threat, the term can be extended. >> richard, obviously this is their version of oklahoma city, our oklahoma city. how much of a threat across europe is right wing extremism? >> it's a significant threat, and it's a growing threat. when we are having society

reacting to the democrat graphic changes in europe, and the economic problems, and long-term unemployed young men, it's a real problem. you are beginning to see it in every western country, the growing almost legitation. >> and other than the changing economy, there has been an influx of muslim immigrants over the past decade, and it seems in one country after another, and especially in central europe, and in one country after another, the ae emergence of the -- >> you're talking about significance percentages, 20%, 25% of the societies becoming

muslim. and this whole question of integration just doesn't seem to be happening. you have a degree of separatism. these countries are struggling. the question in france about the rights and women and girls to wear veils and what not, and it's a larger thing. what is the nature of nationhood. what does it mean to be british or french or norwegian? how do you integrate different things in different societies? >> look at holland, one of the most progressive cultures on the planet, and yet they have struggled with immigration, and they have struggled with even some extreme elements in there country. >> absolutely. this whole country again of what is tolerant and what is tolerable? >> well, and then van gogh

getting stabbed in the chest, that caused reactions. very frightening. we will get back to that. willie, good to have you back. are you going to do your sports cast. >> where have you been? >> away. i have been away >> we missed you. good game last night. late-night game. reds and braves playing in cincinnati. the braves, the second best record in the division. they are playing in the same one with the phillies. bought many of the first, phillips, opposite home run. and then in the fourth brian mccann hits a bomb off willis. and then we go to the ninth. tie game. runner on second. and then one drove to center,

and stubs, remember that name, and -- >> remember until right now. >> yeah, because the bottom of the ninth, attacks the first pitch and goes opposite left field, and he is mobbed at the home plate, and a walk-off home run. >> drew stubs was mobbed at home plate. let's go to boston. tim wakefield, the knuckle baller, and 68 years old on the mound -- >> did you say 68? >> a two-run home run. boston working on a lead in the fifth. one sliced down the line. and then wakefield joins clemens as the second boston pitcher to record 2,000 strikeouts. the mariners have lost 15 consecutive games. >> we went there on friday. >> were you there?

>> yeah. it was like 127 degrees at midnight. the mariner guys were so nice. the kids went down, and thompson, you know he used to play for the giants, and they were great for the kids. >> they are looking for light in beautiful children because they don't have anything else to -- >> they are okay. the thing that surprises me, i never knew how much ichiro is loathed by the players. >> he lives in his own world. >> interesting. >> but good guys. >> so the yankees won yesterday, and the red sox remain three games up on the yanks. not often a prerace prayer steals the show in nascar, but that's what happened on saturday night before the nationwide fed

rated auto parts 300 in nashville, tennessee. pastor joe nelms. >> we thank you for all your blessings, and in all things give thanks, so we want to thank you for the mighty machines you brought before us, and thank you for the dodges and toyotas, and thank you for roush and yates to give us what is before us tonight, and thank you for goodyear tires that bring performance and power to the tract. i want to thank you for my smokin' hot wife,ly sau, and my two children, and lord i pray a blessing that drivers would put on a performance worthy of this

great track, in jesus name, boogity boogity boogity, amen. >> wow, okay! >> i love the racing fuel. >> let's go back to where he got his prayer. >> dear lord, baby jesus, we thank you for the harvest of dom knees, and kfc and the always delicious taco bell. >> the real life ricky bobby there. [ male announcer ] this is the network. a network of possibilities.

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♪ >> it's 46 past the hour. i have a lot of good ones, so be quiet. the first one, i found on saturday and i love it. he points out the hypocrisy beyond bough leaf of not having elizabeth warren head up the bureau. this coming week will be elizabeth warren's last at the bureau. now they have another person who is being nominated and headed up and the republicans are making

hey over that and will try to block as well, and they do not want the bureau to function. does anybody disagree? no. >> i don't think wall street wants it to function. i don't think business interests wants it to function. >> seriously. >> but i believe that this bureau is now part of law, and the republicans have always said we don't want to approve anybody until the responsibilities -- >> they don't want it to function. they will make it drag out as long as they can to make it not function. >> the president stands up and fights for the person he believes in. it's not like he gained anything from wall street by throwing elizabeth under the bus. >> no, you know, he is feeling what he can do -- it's called the art of the possible. apparently the republicans are

pertaining to this -- >> there will be a fight over any nominee. you might as well fight over the right one. >> right. richard haas -- and the principal focus would be on the restoring of the fiscal foundations of american power, and the currents situation is unstable, leaving the u.s. vulnerable either to market forces that could impoes higher interests -- >> richard we talked about this on set. we need to focus on rebuilding our economic engine at home, but before we can do that, we have to get the foundation taken care of. >> exactly. more than anything it's the

fiscal foundation. that's where you drive all your wealth in or among other things to produce military and all the things you need, foreign aid and so forth, and it ties into the lead story today, it's the power of example, central to american foreign policy. what we have seen over the last few years from their 2008 economic crisis to now is we are seeing increasingly growing questioning at times even c contempt, and it also affects everybody else, in this world, what happens here, if you will, doesn't stay here, everybody else, like it or not is affected by -- >> they are watching in asia right now. >> yeah. and we ask ourselves about the competiti competition, and what will be

the future trajectories. if we don't get things like this right, every day and hour that goes by it begins to have an impact on other countries. >> obviously your job is to stay connected with everybody that matters across the globe. what are they saying about the united states of america and its system of government right now? >> it's not working. it affects them. what this will do is change the way the world works, and it means people will be less open to the dependance in the united states, and less open to american leadership, and the dollar will not be the reserve currency of the world because they do not want to make themselves vulnerable to our domestic independence, and you saw it start two years ago, and that was with qe2. the rest of the world doesn't

want to be affected by a parochial political american system, and they will hedge the bets against us, so we shouldn't wonder when down the world the world begins to look to alternatives to america. up next, willie's news you can't use. keep it here on "morning joe." almost tastes like one of jack's cereals. fiber one. uh, forgot jack's cereal. [ jack ] what's for breakfast? um... try the number one! [ jack ] yeah, this is pretty good. [ male announcer ] half a day's worth of fiber. fiber one. [ jack ] yeah, this is pretty good. (telephone ring. pick up) usa prime credit. my name ...peggy. you got problem? peggy? third time i've called, 's time i speak with a supervisor. supervisor is genius...i transfer. transfer! transfer! transfer! transfer! transfer! hello...my name is... peggy? come on!!!

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oh, yes, absolutely. >> why? >> he's back. >> you should have seen your face just now, you looked into the prompter, and your face sank a little bit. >> you mentioned earlier about savannah playing the guitar. >> yeah, show it! show it! >> love it! >> wait, wait -- >> come on, now. >> if you play that, i am never coming back. >> today's show, you are teaching natalie how to play guitar, right. >> yes, we had a guitar suit together. ♪ >> that is so good! >> seriously, ladies of the canyon here. >> your stock just -- >> that's so embarrassing.

>> how? >> i don't know. it just is embarrassing. let's talk about the debt ceiling, afghanistan -- >> a music guy. >> amazing. >> forget about it! >> seriously. >> i am not kidding, she's incredible. >> do you have any other news we can't use? >> no. >> let's watch that again. >> i want to hear "free man in par paris." >> she is good at the guitar. >> you started in your 20s yes. >> did you grow up like donna summer, singing in the church? >> no. my family sat around and sang. that's what we do. this is over sharing. >> no, it's not. >> who did you look op to

musically? >> patty griffin. girls from austin. i love them so much. if i saw them here -- >> savannah! >> i am surprised. peel back this onion and there are so many layers. >> america already loved you, and now we don't know what to do with you're so great. >> she will be reciting poetry next hour. >> coming up, chuck schumer.

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what is your plan for the fall? >> to get congress to raise the debt ceiling on time? >> that's not a plan. >> we do not have the ability, chris, to protect the american people from the consequences of congress not taking that action. >> the president had been saying this for month, and it made more sense when you said it in april than in july. what is your plan? it would be irresponsible to have a plan. the president said you have a plan. what is it? >> i want to be clear, congress will be putting 80 million checks payments at risk at delay, and that would not be responsible. >> joining the table right now, "morning joe" economic analysts,

steve ratiner. >> how many checks does the government write per year? >> $1 billion, and that doesn't include the defense department. if we said let's not pay this or that, it's not clear they have any way to implement that. >> they never had to do this before. >> it's not like as you were saying before, we will just print out social security checks for people on the east of the mississippi. we're in unchartered waters here. >> you have a whole school of people saying we should pay the debt first, which is 40% of our budget, and that would mean cutting off all the social security people, and so not to default on the debt or vice versa.

nobody has any idea what will happen after august 2nd if they don't extend the debt ceiling. >> we have eight days until the august 2nd deadline. and republicans and democrats are turning to rivals. harry reid says when the goernations broke down last night, it was because of the republicans insistence on a short term deal. and the plan will cut $2.7 trillion over the next ten years, and there would be no tax increases. he hopes john boehner will abandon his approach it's my way or the highway approach. the house speaker laid out his latest solution. >> there is going to be a two-stage process. it's not physically possible to

do all of this in one step. i know the president is worried about his next election, but, my god, shouldn't we be worried about the country? we have a budget of $1 trillion, and we have a $14.5 trillion national debt. it's time to get serious about stopping the spending here in washington, d.c. >> the two-step plan boehner mentions would raise the debt ceiling now and cut $1.2 trillion, and then a bipartisan committee would be created to find another $1.8 trillion in cuts. >> i pointed out one absurdity. do you know what is required to raise the debt ceiling? a bill that says we will raise the debt ceiling by x amount. the bill has been one page, and they could pass it in half an

hour. so the notion that it's impossible to avert catastrophe without having a two-stage plan -- you may not want to -- obviously the republicans do not want to pass a clean debt deal, but if push comes to shove, they could do it in an hour. that's all it would take. >> come on. >> there are people, who i think to their credit, want to use this as a moment to deal with the fiscal problems. >> steve, you were saying a few minutes ago, the world economy in crisis, and worst than lehman brothers and etc., etc., it's a lie for boehner to say we can't possibly get this done without a two-step process, and we don't have enough time. that's not true. >> what he is saying is he can't get his republicans to vote for anything other than -- >> my point precisely. >> mika, you were saying last

hour, what possible motivation could the freshmen have? >> steve and i may not agree on a lot, but we both agree that this debt ceiling debate can't pass without some cuts. >> well, they are getting their cuts. >> you heard what steve said, and what john boehner said, and he talked about 42 cents of every dollar the united states of america says they spend on servicing the debt. that number just keeps going up. >> over time it will keep going up and squeeze out the kind of spending you want to have on productive things, and investments in this country's future and competitiveness, and that's the reason we have to get this under control. that gets the tension that you are talking about. on one hand you can make the case for a clean increase, and on the other hand the world will be looking and the markets are looking for some signs that we

are beginning to wrestle with this -- >> it's terrible news if we keep bobbling the ball. >> absolutely. >> but i would not say equally as bad but close is if we pass a clean debt ceiling bill, and we do absolutely nothing with the debt. >> i think honestly, the markets have seen congress fail to exceed the lowest expectations for so long i don't think the market is expecting any miracles here. i think the market is certainly expecting a raising of the debt ceiling and some addressing of the fiscal situation, and the market has given up on $4 trillion cuts, but they want to get it done. >> yeah, the markets are not going to be satisfied with simply us moving on the debt ceiling without ultimately the united states moving on its debt. sooner or later we will have to deal with it. >> and standard & poor's have

made it clear. to contradict my point -- if it's a catastrophe or nothing, i would rather see a debt ceiling bill. on the other hand, we need to deal with the fiscal problem or there will be a downgrade that will happen soon. >> that will be very bad. >> if it does not happen now, it will not happen over the next two years. it won't happen between now and the next election. >> the question is if we have that luck, because any day we could all wake up and for whatever set of reasons, markets just do things, and the world could just decide it needs to diversify its portfolio, and this could happen any day. >> interest rates go up and suddenly the 42 cents on the dollar becomes 50 cents on the dollar that we are servicing. 60 cents on the dollar. we're in a terrible position

now, steve, with interest rates at historic lows. they don't have to go up to jimmy carter levels to cripple the economy, and they could go up to 5%, 6%, and 7%. >> markets will open today lower because of all the uncertainty. this could creep up on you, and it could be just huge. >> and the white house contends there has been significant damage. an intense performance by the chief of staff on "meet the press" yesterday saying this has caused enormous damage to the u.s. >> if you look at the rating agencies and what they have said, what they said is the reason they question our economy right now, and the reason we may get downgraded is because they don't have faith the political

system of ours could deal in a serious way with the deficit. the president is intent on making sure, and all of the congressional leaders, senator mcconnell, and boehner, and read and nancy pelosi said the debt ceiling will be exstenedded but it must be extended that will give certainty to the economy. >> so john, let's -- we have obviously focused on the republicans, and the responsibility front. does president obama and this administration bear any responsibilities for a lack of interest in the talks? >> yeah, things changed after the sa november when the president made an attempt to reach out to the

republicans. but before that there was not a lot of effort of the administration reaching out to the other side. as much of that on the substance, the alternative scenario i would like to run is what would have happened if the president embraced that from the beginning and spent the first six months of the year working in a concerted discipline, focused way, to get simpson bowls to be consensus -- it may not have worked because of where the republicans are, but he let weeks and months pass, and the president did not put a serious budget out, and got zero votes in the united states senate, and the senate did not pass a budget this year. democrats do not have clean hands. democrats have not been serious about the debt.

a month before a deadline that republicans had been talking about since january, and so we need to be careful not to just focus laser-like on the republicans and say the fresh men republicans, why have they been behaving like this? they have been working on this since january. >> the president's fault is one of omission. he did not use the oval office as a classroom to educate the american public about this, and he did not create a context in which the politics allowed him to do what he wanted to do. by the time he entered it, the context was formed on the other side of the issue. it's a real failure to do things and say things, and as a result he is hemed in. if this had been coming out of the financial crisis, if he

basically said we now have to attend to our fiscal basis, to the foundations if you will of the american economy, and condition the american people, then a lot of people on the hill would have found their choices so different, because they would have read the polls. if the president shaped the political environment we would be in a different place right now. >> the president could have done other things, and he had pressures from his own party, from the left, which were unrelenting. as we sit here today, he is being constructive. he offered to compromise and take 75% spending cuts, and cuts in medicare and cuts in social security. all he needs is revenue in order to balance it out and make it fair and keep his side of the aisle intact. >> yeah, and you know, closing loopholes. that's great. i would love to see the bush tax

cuts pulled back, and that's not going to happen. they act as if the president has not come to the table, and he has. i am sorry. is there anybody here that thinks he hasn't? >> i think that he has come to the table and there is consensus on that, and he is quite constructive. i think the only critique you are hearing if he had come to the table sooner, and i think he would have strengthened his own case. >> as a citizen of this country, i don't know if he has come to the table or not. i don't know if the republicans have come to the table or not. again, i go back to this last-second rush, and we heard that john boehner's deal was going to save us $38 billion, and it ended up costing us $7 billion. i don't know if there are entitlement cuts. we hear right now of a proposal floating around to save us $2.7

trillion. 1$1.2 trillion comes from the wars ending. there's a problem when the huge decisions are being made by a handful of men behind closed doors in washington. >> what do you suggest they do? >> i have to say, personally, i think that you have got to extend the debt ceiling for three months, and instead of everybody going on vacation, i think they have got to hammer it out. if they are talking about tax revenue, or talking about entitlement reform, there is some heavy lifting there. steve? tax reform? seriously. that's not something you can do before rushing off to nantucket or martha's vineyard -- >> and steve has tried.

>> yeah, you are exactly right. deals often happen under this pressure. it's not pretty, not in the private sector always. having deadlines can be helpful. i don't disagree if we want sk substantive, we could extend it for a few months. >> but there is a difference between the private and public sector, and there is no public accountability, and that's okay, because they are private entities, but this is a different deal, this is the country. there needs to be accountability for the deals that get cut. >> yeah, deals have been cut in washington for a long time behind closed doors, and that's how sometimes things get done, and then everybody evaluates and decides who was right and wrong. >> bring back that smoke-filled room. in a few minutes, we will bring in chuck schumer, and

james clyburn. and then we will talk to margaret hoover about the future of the republican party, and how she says they could win the young vote in 2012. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. every day, all around the world, energy is being produced to power our lives. while energy developement comes with some risk, north america's natural gas producers are committed to safely and responsibly providing decades of cleaner burning energy for our country, drilling thousands of feet below fresh water sources within self contained well systems and using state of the art monitoring technologies, rigorous practices help ensure our operations are safe and clean for our communities and the environment we are america's natural gas. it's schwab at your fingertips wherever, whenever you want. one log in lets you monitor all of your balances

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where is the president of the united states on the most pressing issues of the united states? where is his specific medicare reform proposal? where is his social security reform proposal? the answer is he doesn't have one. you can't find him publicly talking about that. he is ducking and bobbing and weaving and not leading and that's not the kind of president we need and that's why he has to be removed from office. if you are the leader of the free world would you please come

out to the microphone and face the public? is he chicken? >> spirited interview. >> yeah, i think we will talk about that later. joining us now, the great granddaughter of president herbert hoover, and author of a new book. well, that is if you think it needs to be saved. >> we all know it does. >> margaret, your great grandfather called and wants his book title back. >> thank you for mentioning that. >> you stole the cover. >> so many people these days only talk about the great depression, and this he wrote in 1922, and he was writing it returning from europe after feeding 8 billion belgians, and this is a man who in his day was called the great humanitarian, and he pioneered in nonprofit

organizations. he is is discredited with that, with the great depression, and i suggest the republican party ought to look at the template -- >> now, people need to embrace herbert hoover. >> if you look at the numbers, we all know -- they voted 2 to 4 for him, and they are the largest generation in american history. 80 million strong. half of them turned out at the last election. they were 18% of the electorate. >> reagan did well with the young voters, and so what do republicans need to do? >> what i suggest.

this is the herbert mover connection. i want to characterize who the millennials are. they are pragmatic and not partisan. they are the most diverse generation, and they are 40% nonwhite, and the only generation where a majority believe in same-sex marriage -- >> this is not stacking up well for the republican party. >> here is what we need to do for 2012. >> let her talk. >> the conservative coalition is known for always end fighting, right? but reagan was able to focus our sights on something so all of the conservative movement could unite around, and the unifying thing in the reagan administration was defeating communism. i think we can connect to the next generation by talking about fiscal and entitlement reform and issues that affect the next

generation and can unite the coalition. the reality is, social issues, there's no reason for them to break up the republican party. if we are the party of individuals and individual freedom, we need to be consistent on this. i write a lot about this in my book. >> and you go around the country and write books and making millions of dollars. you have to go out and see what i see when i give speeches. if you are under 30, and you say, let's say john boehner, the president is worried about his next election, or barack obama saying the irresponsible republicans, and you see an eye roll from the people 35 and younger, and they seem to be less partisan than most others. >> not just less partisan, but so deeply skeptical of the whole process. there was obviously a big

movement towards barack obama in 2008 where a lot of young voters attracted him. i think the president and his people realize they are going to have a hard time inspiring that kind of enthusiasm again, because the last 2 1/2 years has been not what a lot of young people who voted for the president thought they were going to get. >> there has not been open changes. >> yeah, they thought there was going to be a breaking of what they hate about politics, and whoever's fault it was, it looked like same ole, same -- >> i think barack obama often times youth react to the failures they know in their government. ronald reagan, he articulated a great vision, and they are reacting to the failures in the carter administration. i think the bush years, they were buying into what barack

obama caps latd. they did not turn out in 2010. his approval rating dropped 18% among this group. >> what have the republicans done to create what you just talked about, a pragmatic government that can be effective and work and we will not be ideal -- >> i am not going to say nothing, but i am not going to say everything either. i think there are a few members within the republican party that do a great job of not demonizing the president, and -- >> like who? >> paul ryan is very good on this. and chris christie is good on this. there are a few members, and that's the tone you have to take. i also believe that when you are in the minority, you don't have

the hope in the presidency, but you have less ability to communicate broadly to the next generation, but i think that will as we heat up for 2012. >> is it staggering looking at carter, and then reagan in '81 '82. i was 18. i was 18 in 1980. god, everybody, when i went to college, and all of my young friends said, wait, this is easy. you had indecision of jimmy carter in the hostage crisis, verses ronald reagan. there was not a clean break, but i think people thought that's what we were going to get with barack obama. for whatever reason, it has not worked out that way. >> the book is called "american

individualism." >> can they do it? i don't know. >> is john a republican? >> john is an independent and not a republican. >> are you sure? >> i am positive. >> after the break, we will bring in congressman james clyburn. keep it right here on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] there's more than one

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i am going to continue to work with my congressional colleagues in both parties and my house republican conference to try and develop a framework within the cut cap and balance effort that the house passed this past week. i do believe that such a framework could come together, but it is not in place as we sit here. >> 32 past the hour. no, it is not. joining us now from columbia, south carolina, democratic representative and leader, congressman, jim clyburn. good to have you on the show, congressman. >> thank you for having me back. thank you. >> how are we going to fix this

before august 2nd? >> i think we have 48 hours within which to do something very meaningful. i think that senator reid is working on something that i think could be very good. i would hope senator mcconnell will join him in that. they ought to use senator mcconnell's proposal as the framework, and flush out what senator reid has been talking about the last two or three days. he is talking about putting forth a plan that includes $2.5 trillion in cuts, and as i understand it, will not touch medicare, medicaid, or social security, and lift the debt ceiling hopefully for 18 to 21 months. >> so jim, let me ask you quick, and i am sorry about the delay. let me ask you quickly, if you

don't cut social security medicare or medicaid, and you figure out a way to get $2.5 trillion in cuts elsewhere, well that's kind of troubling, because that sounds like it's coming from discretionary spending? what is wrong with doing something responsible in entitlemen entitlements? >> i think we ought to do something in entitlements. we ought to create a commission to study all three of the entitlements, medicare, and medicaid, and -- >> i thought the president had a commission. doesn't the president have a commission? >> no. that commission was to study deficit and debt. if you are talking about the simpson commission, that was looking at what we need to do to

put forth a plan to deal with the deficit. i am talking about something that would look at social security, medicare and medicaid, what would make it sustainable and concentrate on that and nothing else. i think we ought to have a commission to study what we need to do about tax reform. everybody knows that we need to make our tax system simpler, and make it more fair, and we have a tax system that really penalizes 98% of the american people while 2% that has been getting extremely wealthy over the last ten years continue to get all of the tax cuts and tax breaks. that's unfair and we need to do something about that. >> why not? >> and you were just answering my last question, and steve rattner was writing something

down. >> if you go back to 2000, you have 21% of our government budget -- sorry, our gdp came in the form of rev news and that has gone down. we have a spending problem and revenue problem. we have from surplus to huge deficit. it occurred for spending reasons and tax reasons. >> if you look at the two lines, the red line is spending going way up and the blue line is revenues going way down at the same time, and this looks like the perfect storm. >> yeah, you will see we are way above historic averages on the spending side and on the revenue side. it gets to the point where we need both to close the gap. one or another loan is not going to get us back to where we were in 2000. >> what kind of tax reform do you support? >> there are a lot of different things we can do. let's look at one of your

points, which is what the richest pay. the 400 wealthiest americans paid 18% of their income. this was on an average of $270 million per person of earnings. >> and this is one of the things is that so maddening to me. we are looking at a chart right now that is jshowing, jim, that the richest americans pay an 18% tax rate, and then we hear people saying we have to raise the income tax rates on the wealthiest americans, and i wonder why, because it's not going to have an impact unless you close loopholes. every time there's a tax cut, warren buffett goes on tv and he says i don't need the tax cuts. of course he doesn't need the tax cuts, because he is paying like 15%, jim. >> back in 1993, the wealthiest

actually paid 30% in income taxes, but along the way through tax cuts under clinton and bush, it went to 18. >> so jim clyburn, the wealthiest americans are paying 18% taxes, and as i say, and i said in last week's politico piece, warren buffett's secretary pays a higher tax rate than warren buffett. and we will get jim back in the conversation here, and ask him, yeah, talk about raising rates all you want, but doesn't this come down to us closing loopholes and figuring out a way to make sure the wealthiest americans don't pay 90%, but at least pay 30%? >> that's exactly right, joe. we have not talked about raising

rates at all. as you know, i am on the biden committee, or one of the biden -- i guess i am still on it, i guess we still exist, but the fact of the matter is we talked about what we need to do to close loopholes. we never talked one moment about raising rates on anybody. and if you look at the subsidies, the oil and gas subsidies and the loopholes being used by the wealthiest, and many other businesses, look at the loopholes that have been used while jobs are being created overseas, the tax credits, we need to close the loopholes and get rid of some of the subsidies and get rid of these tax credits. and we ought to say to the wealthy, look, please, make as much money as you possibly can, and let's just pay a fair rate on all that money you make. i think that the ceo to pay 16% while the receptionist pays 28%,

that is unfair, and we know it. that's why 98% of the american people are carrying this load while the other 2% seem to be getting away scott free, and that's not fair. >> that's true. sorry, no argument. >> i hope you are still on joe biden's commission, and thank you for being here. all that talk about the rich taxes is making john nervous here. >> i am looking at the tax chart there. >> thank you, congressman clyburn. >> when i see charts like that, if we lived in a self respecting country there will be riot in the streets. the fact there's not more outrage over the inequities in the tax code shocks me. shocks me there is not a huge move towards getting equity -- >> the good news here is that

there is actually common ground where people on the left -- and steve, i think populists on the right, think it's unfair for most americans to pay less of a rate than a family of four -- >> the reason why the rate went down so much is because of the cut in the capital gain cut under bush. i would be in favor of raising them. but, the people on the republican side of the aisle are not in favor of raising them, and that false into the rates category, and if you raise it 10%, it would be $80 billion over ten years. thank you very much. chuck schumer is next. we'll be right back.

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welcome back. >> hi, willie. >> back by popular demand clip. you saw it last hour. >> about savannah? >> the preacher at the nascar race. >> they want to hear it again. this is the pastor, before the race in nashville on saturday night. the nationwide fed rated auto parts 300 race by the way. the pastor channeling his inner ricky bobby, thanking the lord and all the sponsors. >> we thank you for all the blessings. you said in all things give thanks. we want to thank you tonight for

the mighty machines that you brought before us, and thank you for the dodges and the toyotas, and thank you for the fords and most of all, we thank you for roush and yates partner to give us the power that we see before us. thank you for gm performance technology, and ro 7 engines, and thank you for the racing fuel and good year tires that bring performance and power to the track. lord, i want to thank you for my smokin' hot wife tonight, lisa, and my two children, eli and emma, and lord may the drivers put on a performance worthy of the great track, in jesus' name, boogity, boogity, boogity, amen. >> and that is incredible. >> if that sounded familiar,

here is "talladega nights." >> we thank you so much for the harvest of domino's, kfc and the always delicious taco bell. >> a great scene. >> yes, a great scene. framed for baby jesus. >> oh, boy. coming up next, senator chuck schumer. >> there he is, on the move. thanks to the venture card from capital one, we get double miles on every purchase, so me and the boys earned a trip to dc twice as fast! oh hi! we get double miles every time we use our card. and since double miles add up fast... one more chariot please. ...we can bring the whole gang! i cannot tell a lie. he did it. right... it's hard to beat double miles! read my lips -- no new axes! [ male announcer ] get the venture card from capital one, and earn double miles on every purchase, every day. go to capitalone.com. what's in your wallet? so, you're a democrat right?

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we can surely extend it five or six months. have this committee in congress come back and report on the way to continue to reduce our deficit, and in that way avert the disaster and move forward with progress. the single most important thing to president obama is extending this beyond his re-election campaign. he just doesn't want to have to deal with it again. >> with us now, new york democratic senator chuck schumer. how do we get a deal? >> i think there's some hope today. senator reid is going to put forth and offer that meets the democrats' main criteria, going past 2012, and the two republican criteria. enough cuts to equal the amount you raise the debt ceiling and no revenues. i think that has some hope. hopefully it's the kind of thing that speaker boehner can rally his tea party troops towards.

>> what are the senate? can you get that deal through the senate? >> i believe we could, yes. look, everyone talks about house/senate. it's really democrats, republicans. you know if you can't get seven republican votes, you can't get it. you need, really, signoff from boehner, pelosi, because boehner doesn't have enough votes to get it through on his own with 30 to 50 tea partiers saying no. and you need all five to sign off's if not, it's not going to happen. >> let me ask you about the front page of marketplace "wall street journal." we were talking about a showing that the wealthiest american, paying 18% tax rate. down from 30% back 10, 15 years ago. the front page "wall street journal" says that u.s. corporations are making a killing. >> they're doing great. >> their best year in about five years. their earning reports are all

strong. most of them are very strong, and yet no jobs. >> right. >> why? >> well, there are a number of reasons. one of the reasons is that they're becoming better at producing things with fewer workers. the head of ge told me i have good news and bad news. what's the good news? he's opening up plants in upper new york state. ge was king there. bad news, 100 major workers because it's all done by robots. 40,000 in schenectady. that's gone. and 3,000, 4,000, making turbines. making more than they did 30 years ago. >> to your point, bringing jobs to america would pay $19 an hour. >> right. what they pay. $14 dollars an hour in chattanooga. that's not an economic wage. >> the economic answer to this is you have to have the best education system.

you have to let in some real entrepreneur people kung into this country, change immigration and america will stay at the high end of thing, but those two things aren't happening. >> they're not happening now and in the middle of all this, lots of people with nowhere to go. >> steve's point is a good point. the most salient fact of this decade, economy, we need a median decline. americans don't begrudge -- >> first time in history for a full decade. >> first time. interests, relates to the paint you make. we didn't go down from 2001, 2010, went down from 2001 to 2007, before the recession hit. if middle income don't feel the ladder keeps going up you don't have the american dream anymore. that's serious stuff. and we should all be thinking about how to deal with that. when i meet with business leaders, my biggest beef is not that they want things for think

company. where is their push for education to make it better and stronger? they have to get involved on the national scene. even on this debt. where are they? you don't hear their voices. >> we had senator clyburn on and asked about reforming medicare as part of the deal for the debt ceiling here, and he suggested we should take that up later. that a real approach to that requires more time and effort. but we understand that senator reid's plan that you just referenced does include some reforms to entitlement programs. do you know what though specifically are? are they meaningful? >> i'm not going to get into the details on your program, but it will do, as we said, those three things. it will go past 2012. it will haves many cuts and increases in the debt creel ceiling and have no debt ceiling. we're not doing entitle reform. the president put it on the table. democrats didn't take it off the table. when the republicans said no

revenue, here's what drives me crazy about this debate. we have moved and moved and moved away from what should be our position, so to speak. we like entitlement reform. we've moved. republicans have stayed on the dime without going for a single nickel of revenues and you can't do a large deal without revenues no matter what you do with enteethment reform, unless you end entitlements. >> in 1995 and 1996 people like trent lott, conservatives, call me into his office and say, what are you doing? there's a very small boat. of course, i never listened to limb, but it was a very responsible thing for trent and bob dole and oh republicther re to do. to explain the system. >> every likes speaker boehner and everybody thinks that speaker boehner is correctly a

2k50es decent guy that wants to do the right thing in respect was a feeling at the end of the day he will be able toll corral the tea party, who are really, way, way out there, beyond what you ever think and bring them onboard. but what's happening is, instead of speaker boehner leading the tea party, he seems to be following them. now, the internal dynamics in that caucus, i'm not sure. >> you can only take your caucus so far. your caucus at the end of the day, does what it wants to do the tea party, the really extreme right people who just say let us default of not a majority of that caucus. they're a large minority. but you need some real leadership. what speaker boehner tried to do, it's a small deal. he's tried to say, okay what do these guys need? they need no revenues, which sarong -- >> yeah. is it fair eve ton have a $2.7

trillion package with no revenue in it? is that fair? >> when you look at what comes out in those cuts, we don't like them, but we're willing to move and compromise, and what is killing -- what's hurting this among many other thing, oh, they're both to blame. we're not. that's not the case here. >> no. it's more like surrender to compromise? >> i don't believe so. know, it's not. wait until you see the package. you will see, it's not things we like, but surrender would be putting in all the entitlements cut without a nickel of revenues. we've held the line on that, and that's not the case. >> all right. >> i just hope and pray speaker boehner can do just what you said. >> senator chuck schumer, thank you very much. more "morning joe" when we come back. new neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair. its retinol formula smoothes wrinkles in just one week. why wait if you don't have to. neutrogena®. no, it's just for new people.

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this is about american jobs and the american economy. and if we don't do something serious about controlling our debt, it's hanging over our entire economy like a blanket. that's why i believe that taking serious steps towards solving this problem will affect, breathe more confidence in our economy and help create jobs here. i would prefer to have a bipartisan approach to solve this problem. if that's not possible, i and my republican colleagues in the house are prepared to move on our own. >> today? >> today. good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on set we have john heilemann and savannah guthrie. >> savannah, the asian markets, a little jittery right now.

but we're getting serious, down to the home stretch, and some very bad things people in the know, in the markets, very bad news. >> well, that's not a surprise. right? i mean, we've known if we've got this close that things would start to get bad, what, for months, and now we are this close. >> and we've still got nothing. >> and things are starting to get a little edgy. >> what happened? why can these people not do a deal? bring it in for a landing? >> no. we are at that place now where, you know, where the fundamental ideological and political convictions of the two sides want proven to be unshakable have proven to be unshakable and they are now serenading each other and saying we fundamentally believe different things about the size and role of government, what this is all about and we're not ready to yield. people can get the votes together and in the absence of

being able to put together a coalition that will pass, i think we are where we are. >> so what happened on friday night? savannah, we had the white house saying john boehner wouldn't return my call. we had john boehner saying he did a bait and switch. $400 billion in revenues. we agreed to it in principle and then asked for more. >> right. >> i've been trying to sort through this all week and everybody has a different answer. it's the republicans. it's the president's. whose fault is it? >> i don't know who's fault. felt like a telephone game. boehner interprets it we need $400 billion more. i already gave you $800 billion or whatever, and the white house saying, no. we were just inquiring, do you think you could push your guys? let us know, calls back if you can do it or not do it. the takeaway, watching from the sidelines. come on, people, get it together. it's just feeling like romper room for adults. it doesn't make any sense why these two can't come together.

>> they both got angry on friday night, and it's like, okay. we're divorcing. and then saturday morning they're back together again. >> it's mutually shared destruction iffed debt ceiling isn't raised on august 2nd. even if we don't default. smart economists tell you, you probably won't default right away. the u.s. treasury would try or tor -- prioritize and then national debt, economists say the effect of a default. sooner or later, the long ter goes on, credit markets will wonder, wait. how long will they be able to meet these obligations? so the economic damage, first of all, is already happening. it's only going to get worse, and i don't understand the politics of it. i don't understand, you know, who thinks this is beneficial to them? i don't understand -- >> why they think they have the upper hand. >> wye why republicans want another vote before the 2012 elections as if that would go to their benefit? i don't think it's to anyone's

benefit and certainly would harm the economy. >> it certainly would not help the economy. this indecision is -- is killing the united states as far as its reputation across the globe and, willie, we talked about a rising china all the time. i i suspect we're doing more damage to the reputation of the dollar and the u.s. economy than what china could do to us competitively over 50 years. we are handing them an extraordinary advantage worldwide. >> bill daly almost made that exact point on "meet the press." he said we'll get through this, we won't default hopefully get something done, but the effect is that it shows not just voters here in the united states but markets and leaders abroad that the united states' system isn't really set up to do big things. when a crisis like this comes up, they can't come to a deal that would repair the markets and show stability to the rest of the world. >> we lost our ability to do it in the 1980s.

ronald reagan and tip o'neill make big deals. 's in it's 1990s, bill clinton and the republican congress made big deals. mika, it's not over yet, but it's gotten to the point already that this is damaging the reputation of the united states of america, and the longer it goes, and i think we're talking about it damaging our reputation more exponentially every day this crisis goes on. >> i think both sides would agree to that. after a weekend of meetings resulting in yet another impasse, president obama is cancelling two fund-raisers today to continue negotiations. senate majority leader harry reid says the talks broke down last night because of the republicans' insistence on a short-term deal. reid says the democrats new proposal is an effort to reach a compromise. their plan would reportedly cut $2.7 trillion over the next ten years. officials say it raises the debt ceiling but there would be no tax increases. reid says he hopes john boehner

will abandon his "my way or the highway" approach and help with a bipartisan compromise. speaking on fox news sunday, the house speaker laid out his latest solution. >> there is going to be a two-stage process. it's not physically possible to do all of this in one step. i know the president's worried about his next election, but, my god, shouldn't we be worried about the junt we've got a budget deficit of $1.5 trillion. we're borrowing 42 cents on every dollar we spend. we have a $14.5 trillion national debt. it is time to get serious about stopping the spending here in washington, d.c. >> i don't think that's happened. i really don't. >> yeah. this is the plan. >> again do that, if you don't fund-raiser's pass, but don't say that the president's concern -- talking tab last week, harry reid saying snippy think things about republicans. john boehner does not need to go on national television during

this time of crisis, and this is a time of crisis. >> uh-huh. >> and take cheap shots at the president like that. again, for republicans at home watching, ah, he said the same thing about harry reid two weeks ago. maybe they just -- maybe they just don't understand on capitol hill. maybe they don't understand how much this is shaking the world's confidence in the united states of america, in the dollar, in our political system. maybe in washington, d.c. they don't understand that we are literally in an economic fight for supremacy over the next century with china. maybe they don't understand that the more this goes on, the more we strengthen china's standing in the globe. the more we strengthen our rival -- savannah, maybe they just don't get it. >> maybe they'll ask, recognize how this place, the back swath of americans who are paying

attention, for speaker boehner to say the president is worried about politic, that may or may not be the case but no one is suggesting that the republicans aren't worrying about politics. it's not that persuasive coming from any of those guys to point the finger and say you're playing politics. give me a break. everybody here is playing politics. >> simply on the substance of what boehner said, it's ridiculous. i mean, just on this one point, right, which is that the president -- the one thing that is absolutely just from any objective standpoint true is that having this debate again in january or february in 2012 is almost the only thing that's imaginable that's worse than what we're going through right now, because anybody who thinks that that would be a prettier or more productive process in the middle of a presidential election. >> it woob nightmare. >> with the iowa caucuses looming and election 11 moss aw months away is out of their minds. >> to say nothing of the economic consequences these debates are having. >> and this is a political

nightmare, willie, for the president. the president understands if he gets a deal done, like he got a deal done after the last election, well, that's going to help him with ind denian indepe. i think the president is a little more worried about an economic meltdown. >> exactly. >> an economic armageddon that happens if we don't -- if we don't take care of this. >> absolutely true, but there's also a reason the white house has said they won't do a short-term deal. they don't want this coming up during the presidential election. beyond the cynical and politics of it, i think just people watching this see that idea as another piecemeal, short term we can't do the big deal solution. do it for six months but can't solve the bigger problem. >> fair to say the white house feels they've given them the deal of the lifetime and they ought to take it. bill daly was on "meet the press" yesterday. he's still blaming speaker boehner for the impasse.

he said the debt ceiling negotiations have already caused "enormous damage" to the united states. >> if you look at the rating agencies what they've said, what they've said is, the reason they question our economy right now and the reason we may get downgraded, because they don't have faith that this political system of ours can deal in a serious way with the deficit. so the president is intents on making sure and all of the congressional leaders, senator mcconnell, speaker boehner, senator reid, congresswoman nancy pelosi all set the debt ceiling would be extended, but it must be extended in a way that gets the economy through 2013 and not a short-term gimmick where we're right back in this fix in six or eight months. >> and you know what's troubling to me is, the white house obvio obviously, he's right. but this is all happening b inid

closed doors. i have no idea what's happening, and neither does america. was the john boehner's fight? was it the president's fight? we don't know. does the president really have a serious plan to curve the rate for medicare, for social security for medicaid? we don't know. it's all happening behind closed doors. america's economy teeters on the brink we don't actually know what three or four or five men are doing behind closed doors in washington. think about that. it's insane. >> and because of that, i don't -- if we do see the economic calamity people are predicting, i don't know if people will have a good sense of whose fault it was. >> i don't think they care. it take twos to make a fight at this point and you don't care. go to your room. >> that's why everybody gets thrown out and i don't

understand why each side feels this debate is the to their political advantage. >> if this blows up, this savages both side. >> and done this twice, your natural question, but every time we say, why do republicans think, i'm going to say republicans, why the republicans think this could be to their advantage. republicans is the wrong -- it's too -- it's not the right phrase, because the republicans are really much more divided right now than democrats are. >> the republicans are horrified by what's going on. >> yes. >> the freshmen republicans and -- >> and they have very different views about the politics, the economics of this, and that's really, i think, at the core of the problem. just as, again, not to cast blame, but the split republican caucus in the house is really where everything is hung up right now, because there are deals that john boehner would cut if it -- if those people did not exist. the freshmen were either more pliant or did not exist, more john boehner, like republicans in the house.

there are deals we would cut and could cut easily. his problem is managing this caucus which has this big continental divide right down the middle. >> and to lieutenant you know just how split the republican party is, willie, while you were doing your orphans project in monte carlo last week, spent the first half of the week in battles with talk show hosts on the left. the second part of the week, though, actually saying a default would are disaster. grover norquist sent up the warning flags by the end of the week, because he understands how dangerous this is. john boehner, mitch mcconnell, lamar alexander, most republican chairmen and chairwomen understand this is an economic calamity, but there are some people in the caucus that say, damn the torpedoes.

full steam ahead. when grover norquist says this, there is your canary in the gold mine. >> we haven't mentioned, by the way, some of the details of these proposals. if you have $2.5 trillion in savings over ten years in this one democratic proposal, a trillion of that assumes the end of both the wars in iraq and afghanistan. which right now is a big assumption. >> big assumption. >> huge. >> a lot of fuddy-duddy math. >> still not getting serious. >> i went away from fuzzy. >> all fuzzied up? is that like, fuddy-duddy? >> yes. >> moving beyond the 2000 election. so -- all right. >> you know -- are you surprised they don't have a deal today? because i actually, really -- i mean, i really thought -- >> i would be shocked if they don't have a deal in the next two or three days. i -- again, republican freshmen

may have a big ideological difference with barack obama and his world view. it is no more -- the divide is no greater than ronald reagan's was with tip o'neill in 1983, when they sat down, and did a deal. the same with newt gingrich and bill clinton in the 1990s. i mean, yes. you differ with barack obama and the democrats, but -- you get the bill. >> usually you're good at seeing someone's angle. what's the angle? >> i see the angle. these republicans believe this is their only opportunity to -- >> are they so stuck to their -- >> do you want knee answer -- >> that they cannot even think outsided box for the good of the country? >> can i finish? can i fish? >> seriously. >> sorry. >> ask a question, i'm going to finish it. >> i'm sorry. >> they understand one thing. >> all right.

what do they understand. >> and they're dead right about this. this is their best chance for quite some time to actually get real debt savings, and i think they're concerned, like i would be very concerned right now, that there's going to be fuzzy math in this, these deals. that barack obama's not going to be serious about entitlement reform, but at some point you have to take those concerns and take the leverage you have and translate is into a deal, and if tom coburn says we could get a $4 trillion deal, follow tom coburn. i wouldn't say that about any other politician in washington, but these republican freshmen are safe following tom coburn's advice. >> on your historical analogy, though, can you imagine house democrats in the '80s hearing manage from don reagan and say we don't believe him, we think he's lying or house republicans in 1995, bob ruben has the credibili credibility. he's lying to us.

as many house republicans are saying of tim geithner. he's making up the deadline. it's just not true. up next, don cheadle to discuss his new comedy and the music industry reacts to the troubled death of amy winehouse. and live to the new york stock exchange. first bill karins way check on the forecast. >> what a historical week, from last week, record highs on the east coast and the heat still continued. now we're cooling it off. the showers and thunderstorms, the green on the map. finally, rain-cooled air outside of pittsburgh rolling through pennsylvania, also upstate new york and northern new england will get hit. these storms eventually make their way into the big cities. that's why we will not see the 90s today. most locations should be in the 80s. d.c. probably right around 90 for your high. washington, d.c., enjoy the rain-cooled air later on in the

day. look what happens in the end of the week. heat index returns. back up to 100 possibly in d.c. as we head towards friday. southeast also deals with storms. talk about hot. it was 104 yesterday around dallas. today, 105. if you're wondering where the heat went, still centered right over the top of the deep south. west coast, if you're waking up this weekend, warm this weekend. now you've cooled off. you're watching "morning joe," brewed bo eed beautiful b starbucks. [ male announcer ] get ready for the left lane. the volkswagen autobahn for all event is back. right now, get a great deal on new volkswagen models, including the jetta, awarded a top safety pick by the iihs. that's the power of german engineering.

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shall we say, open the projects. >> what? >> would you go open the projects? >> no, i did not grow up in the projects. it might surprise you to learn that i actually come from a very politicaled background. pie privileged i mean prep school, yale. i was a roads scholar. if you know what a roads scholar is. >> i do know. >> really? >> kris kristofferson was a rhodes scholar. you are protect. correct. >> ever have -- >> some in the hamptons. >> skiing, huh? i thought black people couldn't ski. or is that swimming?

>> oh, my gosh. that was scene from the new film. joining us now, one of the film's stars, don cheadle. >> shocking. >> my goodness. >> shocking. not p.c. who does he think he is? talking to me like that. >> unbelievable. >> well, he can talk like that too anybody he wants. >> he goes 240. you're right. >> a fascinating clip to say the least. >> it's a great movie. i'm really proud of this movie. i had a lot of fun. we shot it in conamora, a little town on the coast and gleason plays a pretty unconventional police guard over there, and i'm an fbi agent coming over to track a drug ring and bump into this guy and this guy becomes my sort of de facto partner while

i'm trying to bust this ring. >> wow. he's a little skeptical of it? >> he's not, let's say, up to speed on some things. >> you know what? it's great, because he, in the film he seemed probably the most -- he's definitely the most unorthodox cop out there, but he turns out to actually have more on the ball than everybody else. >> kind of like -- i read some pieces about this a couple weeks ago. there's kind of, like, low-level racial commentary throughout the whole thing, obviously, because it's a comedy you get away with that without it being too heavy. >> it's not heavy. it's like a friend of mine was saying, he said if he was really racist, it wouldn't be funny. you know what i mean? it couldn't be funny, if you really had that point of view. it couldn't be funy. he's clearly, in the movie, just trying to get a rise out of me in any way he can, and it's -- he's probably the least bigoted character in the whole play, in

the whole movie actually. >> in the mcdonoughs, their entire family, talking about some of the plays, but talk about working with that group, writing, directing? >> it was great. we were just talking about "pillow man" before the show started, and just a great play and all of them are nice plays and the film he did -- >> we brinnon gleason and john's his brother and they have a nice sibling rivalry where they go at each other with what they're accomplishments are, great to the meet him on the set, but john came up with this character first. this guard character, and wrote this piece. this piece kind of came out of his focus on this character, but very talented. martin helped us a lot in the editing after we finished, to kind of put this movie together, because it kind of went off the beat for a second, after we finished it. which is very scary. you have a great movie, you see

cut and you're like, oh -- >> that's not what i signed up for, baby. >> yeah, but it went through a lot of changes and martin was instrumental in coming in saying -- when you're a writer and the director, every word is precious. every moment in the scene impacts it. but you've got to -- it's got move. martin was instrumental in coming in. you've got to kill some babies. figuratively. >> you know -- >> not actually. >> there's no sacrifices. >> that phrase is key. be able to kill your children. it's hard to kill your children as writer. >> yeah. >> the movie loves great. you co-founded, not on our watch. an organization with george clooney. i want to ask you about that, and then i want to know if your jerry weintraub imitation is as good as george's? >> i don't really do a jerry weintraub. i'm make you a -- it's great. >> just remember when doing that, the seven-second delay doesn't always work on this show. you've got to be very careful.

send me your check, please. >> no. i would nerve doer never do that. never drop a bomb. no, this kind of came out of all of our interests in, you know, varying degrees to what was happening in sudan and darfur at that time. we were in cannes i believe doing an "ocean's 12," yeah. and all started talking about this and jerry put together this organization, really, sort of his brainstorm and brad, matt and george and myself formed this organization to try and deal with what was happening over there and raise money. we were able to raise around $13 million. >> you co-wrote a book on it, and so how are we? that was in 2007. obviously, south sudan, just established as a country after 2 million killed in that country over the past decade.

which i definitely understood. rwanda, a million people killed, you did a movie about that, it was so savage and a couple years later in sudan, 2 million people killed, chopped up. little kids sold into slavery. the world was just, so slow in turning their attention to sudan. >> it's still the -- not the same obviously. we have a new dmunt southern sudan and hopefully if that country become as place where there is an economy and ap new ability for markets to come in there and work, there's going to be more vested interests for an international market to have an influence in that region, but right now it sits -- i don't know. i think it's tenuous. we wait and see. recognized as an autonomous government, but there were soldiers amassing on the border,

aid workers less than a month ago that were lined up and guns put to the back of their heads, fear tactics so they wouldn't swlee was happening. they found mass graves. a project not on our watch co-founded, the enough project, it's filmed, you know, these mass graves that we've seen, and armies still, troops still amassing on the borders, so it's not quite finished yet. as i said, hopefully with the new interest in the country, they'll be new eyes and it will be more difficult to get away with that kind of thing, but it still is going to take the super powers, the middle powers to apply pressure in that region and try to see that it comes to -- >> i never understood consistency, the u.s. power in the 1990s, we storm into the balkans, afraid of awe trtrocit those killed in sudan. libya. went there, why? thousands of people killed. heck, another 10,000 or so could

be killed if gadhafi had his way, yet south on the same continent in sudan, in rwanda, we turn a blind eye. darfur, we turn a blind eye? >> i guess it would be, if were you to say, well, it almost seems like when it's africa, that region, that it's easier to ignore or sort of wring our hands and say, if only we knew what to do? >> what can we do? >> but there's also, i find places where there is no real boom other than a humanitarian -- >> no oil. >> what are we there for? how are we going to justify the potential loss of american troops if we send them there? >> suppose it's strategic interest. i'm curious, from your perspective, rwanda. do you that movie. did that movie raise your consciousness politically about this or did you always have a raised consciousness that led you to do the movie? >> no. i think -- i knew very little about it. i had seen a documentary on

frontline about it, right before i went over there. and i was completely sensitized by being there and meeting the people there and meeting the president there, but it was really through the republican senator that i met in california who was going to go to the region, on a congressional allegation and invite e delegat invited me to go along. when i saw that, i became sensitized. when i was doing "hotel rwanda" i knew very little tab until i talked to people there. and a lot of the extras were survivors of the atrocities, people that went through would still want to participate in the dramatization of it. how could you ever do that? but for many it was therapeutic and they wanted to be there to make sure that was done properly. >> so how is rwanda doing almost 20 years later? >> incredible, the turnaround that's happened there.

i mean, it's really outpacing us in a lot of its forward-thinking about the environment and things that they're doing for renewal of energies and the president is really turned the country around, and, you know, in the outskirts in areas there, there are skirmishes here and there, but it's 180 degrees. >> that's great. >> don cheadle, thank you so much. "the guard" opens this friday. >> can't wait to the see it. >> looking forward to it. >> great movie. >> whew! >> wall street, starting to feel the jitters today for the debt ceiling deadlock. business before the bell with simon hobbs is next.

welcome back to "morning joe." investigators in london are conducting an autopsy on amy winehouse, found dead inside her home on saturday. nbc's stephanie gosk has more from london. ♪ i cheeated myself like i do ♪

like i knew i would ♪ >> reporter: a rapid rise to fame and a familiar tragic struggle with all that came with it. ♪ you know that i'm no good >> reporter: amy winehouse's first album released in 2003, not that long ago. she was only 20 years old. but it was back to black, the second release that launched the singer/songwriter's short career. ♪ back to black >> reporter: nominated for six grammys it won five. ♪ go to rehab, i said, no, no, no ♪ >> reporter: but those words would become the young star's undoing, tempted by drugs and debilitated by addiction. >> you've got to do this, go to this doctor, you've got to do this, you've got to do that. you're killing me. you're killing your mom. none of it worked. >> reporter: on saturday, winehouse died in her london home, despite rescue workers' attempts to revive her.

the cause of death unknown but tabloids are filled with speculation of a drug overdose. winehouse went in and out of rehab. but ultimately, she couldn't beat it. in belgrade this spring, the kickoff performance of a comeback tour was disastrous. her timing was off. she slurred lyrics and seemed drunk. the crowd booed. many left before it was over. she grew up in north london picking up the love of music from her father, herary favorites were sinatra and felonious monk. and eventually she relied heavily on jazz but often with hip-hop flare. >> amy winehouse combined elements of jazz and blues in a modern setting. and thus was reminiscent of some of the great singers. she was one of the rare true artists of our time.

♪ over me >> that was nbc's stephanie gosk reporting. terrible. she's a hugely, hugely talented artist. you heard the news, shocked at first and then say, unfortunately, this seemed like the tway would end for her at some point. so much a struggle with drugs and alcohol. >> very sad. it just happens over and over. tell you, 27. >> 27. >> "back to black" was a great album. really, just an incredible piece of work. >> hmm. let's turn now to the financial markets. >> sad. >> treasury secretary tim geithner who says the longer the deficit debate rages on in washington, d.c., the bigger the threat to global stocks. >> if you look at markets around the world over the last few weeks or so, they still show really a remarkable degree of confidence that america's going to meet its obligations as we always have and that we're going to find a way to begin to make progress in our long-term fiscal challenge, but that will start

to erode the longer we wait. >> let's get a check on business before the bell now with cnbc's simon hobbs. he's live on the floor of the new york stock exchange, and simon, tell us, what's the pulse like down there right now? is it quickening? >> we are going to get a lower economic dow, fall about 90 points. the dollar's down, oil's down. general risk off trade. the clear thing you didn't blame, interesting, to what geithner said yesterday, what obama said friday night at the news conference, was wait until what happens with the markets on monday morning. wait until asia sees we haven't got a deal and tried to use it as a whip handle, if you like to get a deal over the weekend and similarly failed to do that and are arguably in danger of sounding a little like the boy who cried wolf too often. this is not a huge format we'll see at open. you know the treasury market is like a big, wide, very deep ocean, and we're rippling on the top at the moment. if. does turn it would be absolutely

monumental. there's no sign of that happening agency we stand at the moment. a lower open. >> what happened in asia overnight? obviously, concerns it would start in asia and tear through europe and then devastate our market. what happened with asia. >> and asia did fall. asia did fall and shanghai, china fell badly, but they had a big train crash there over the weekend which was more important. but when europe saw we were going to fall at the bell at the open because of future contracts, they gave up the losses they it. there's an implicit belief a deal will be done as things stand at the moment, joe, because the alternative is simply too horrendous. >> what is the alternative? >> well, the alternative would be that you get a technical default and we immediately ge into a no-man's-land. basically the ratings agencies say, okay, we're slashing the credit rates of the united states. it's no longer aaa. we don't know if they would do that before august 2nd, at august 2nd or after august the 2nd, but then we're somewhere where we've never been before, to be in that situation.

does it mean, for example that those fund managers that holds, can only hold aaa rated forms are immediately forced to sell around the world? does the selling, therefore, engender more selling? we really don't know. >> when you talk to people on the street what is the scenario you hear most often? do interest rates go up? >> well, interest rates go up in that environment. the scenario they paint what the politicians will say, we cannot default. the debt ceiling must be raised. >> simon hobbs, thank you so much. >> thank you so much. >> we appreciate it. we shall return with the top stories on "morning joe." i know you're worried about making your savings last and having enough income when you retire.

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right way? >> it looks so. the last several day, looks two people familiar with negotiations say the nfl and its players reached a deal to end the league's lockout. the nfl players association executive committee is meeting today and reportedly expected to begin voting on this and to approve it. owner overwhelmingly approved the proposal last week with some unresolved issues. ancillary stuff outside the money still needs to be figured out. besides working through the weekend, sources say they've finished the deal. the league's old labor agreement expired in march, owners locked out the players as the nfl's first work stoppage since -- >> who wins? >> players get money. keep a 16-game season. revisit in a couple years for now, 16-game season. like awful these things, it was about the money. players get a little piece of the pie. free agency begins in effect, been on hold. tomorrow. players report to camp, rookies

can get -- >> are the contracts more guaranteed than before? >> they're not going to be more guaranteed. that's one of the crazy things about the nfl. >> insane. >> you can be cut any day of the week, regardless of what your contract says. that's why the big stars get huge signing bonuses. your only guaranteed money. >> they cut you, you don't get paid? >> you're gone. >> what about the injury cases? >> yeah. you get injured? >> no. shoot you, put you down. >> you're done. >> we'll be right back. ...was it something big? ...or something small? ...something old? ...or something new? ...or maybe, just maybe... it's something you haven't seen yet. the 2nd generation of intel core processors. stunning visuals, intelligent performance. this is visibly smart.

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willie, how many days does a cat stay in heat? two, five or ten? >> five. >> you're correct. >> california, florida or nevada, dancers? >> exotic? >> california. >> you're krects. >> being born with the most hair, teeth or fingers and toes? >> fingers and toes. >> you're correct. >> what is the name of this drag queen that we are showing a picture is of? is this head of broccoli, head of cauliflower or head of lettuce. >> i'm going to say it's a head of lettuce. >> willie, you are right! >> whoa! >> i like drag queens. what can i say?

>> whoa. watch what happens live. andy -- sleeping. that's funny. >> what the best part about this. >> the two of you are funny. >> the best part, you get to drink on the tv screen, and it's all good. all part of the deal, do you think he'll ever have you on the show? >> no. >> we don't fit the pro file? >> no. we're knoll hnot hipsters? >> you just nailed the problem will, literally. >> it's a neat show. sit think with one of the "housewives." >> always with a housewife. i was in carolyn from new jersey. she was great. >> neither a hipster nor a hipsteress. >> i got to be one of them. >> one of the two. >> i'm not sure which category. >> i'm in the dead zone. the question i ask at this point is -- >> you're a plan without a country. >> i'm always a man without a country. it's my whole life. >> i'm sorry. >> now i'm neither a hipster or a hipsteress.

>> you're not. >> anybody have pictures of xrot brown scott browning? >> i have the book. >> that's old news. >> i don't want to see that. >> put that down. >> they got this leg up something -- >> these have been unearthed by -- a knitting catalog. okay? 19 84. he appeared in this knitting catalog, and sold yarn. wore nice sweaters. 14 pages. senator scott brown at the age of 25. knit sweaters. >> he looks good. i like that. he's wearing clothes. >> handsome guy. >> he's sweaterific. >> whatever. he went through law school. >> so, is elizabeth warren going to run against him? >> i think she should. >> i think she should. >> what do you think -- why do you think she ho? >> nice to have a public role in

washington. a voice for the things she believes in. >> so you're rooting for her now? >> i think if she wants to run again, let her run. i'm meteorologist bill karins with your forecast. mostly the middle of the country, showers and thunderstorms tooling off the big cities in the east including new york and d.c., bought 340r, philly, atlanta a chance of storms. nice in detroit and chicago. look at the heat in dallas. up to 103 today. ooo. sounds pricey? nah, with the hotels.com summer sale, you can find awesome deals for places nearby. interesting... wow, i'm blown away. you look great. hotels.com summer sale, save up to 30%.

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